Series Metal Gear Solid Series

Snake Plissken

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I really cannot be bothered with the series anymore. All the comments are "it's not Metal Gear without Kojima." Why do people continue to pretend that he's the top tier of gaming devs?
 

wellcqcaboutthat

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i dunno, i dont really like the layout but i havent really been on here since the redo.
 

Robocop

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I'm sure Konami are going to put Donna's vocals to good use in a very high-quality pachinko machine...
 

Snake Plissken

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Strangely and out of no where I decided to boot up MGS1 and start a new game. I've been sketching it a lot lately (don't know why) and got past Ocelot. I forgot how unforgiving the game is when you get spotted and just how easily you get an alert. I don't know how many times I accidentally bump a soldier when I'm trying to grab him to snap his neck.

I really miss this Kojima. He died a decade ago. Imagine what MGS4 could of been with Fukishima as co writer. MGS4 is better now than it was then, but it still has issues. If you could get rid of the Meryl/Johnny bull shit, not make Snake this defeated man, make it actually be Liquid instead of some bullshit MacGuffin... I think it could of been equal to the trilogy.
 

Jameson Rook

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Strangely and out of no where I decided to boot up MGS1 and start a new game. I've been sketching it a lot lately (don't know why) and got past Ocelot. I forgot how unforgiving the game is when you get spotted and just how easily you get an alert. I don't know how many times I accidentally bump a soldier when I'm trying to grab him to snap his neck.

I really miss this Kojima. He died a decade ago. Imagine what MGS4 could of been with Fukishima as co writer. MGS4 is better now than it was then, but it still has issues. If you could get rid of the Meryl/Johnny bull shit, not make Snake this defeated man, make it actually be Liquid instead of some bullshit MacGuffin... I think it could of been equal to the trilogy.
I've played MGS1-3 a gazillion times and I never get tired of it. I have all 3 games in my pocket thanks to the Vita and you can't ask anything more than that. MGS1, 2, 3. In. Your. Pocket.

It really is the best game "trilogy" of all time since each title compliments each other and they all have something relevant to say, unlike the newer games. In my mind, it ended at 3 and MPO and Rising were really darn good spin offs. And yes, I'll fight anyone who discredits Fukishima since he WAS the guy who wrote the dialogue and kept Kojima's avant garde narcissism in check.

As for the MGS1 gameplay, you'll need to stand still within a foot away from a soldier, let go of the analog stick and then only do a chokehold otherwise there's a risk of messing it up.
 

Snake Plissken

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I've played MGS1-3 a gazillion times and I never get tired of it. I have all 3 games in my pocket thanks to the Vita and you can't ask anything more than that. MGS1, 2, 3. In. Your. Pocket.

It really is the best game "trilogy" of all time since each title compliments each other and they all have something relevant to say, unlike the newer games. In my mind, it ended at 3 and MPO and Rising were really darn good spin offs. And yes, I'll fight anyone who discredits Fukishima since he WAS the guy who wrote the dialogue and kept Kojima's avant garde narcissism in check.

As for the MGS1 gameplay, you'll need to stand still within a foot away from a soldier, let go of the analog stick and then only do a chokehold otherwise there's a risk of messing it up.
It is the best trilogy. I don't think anything can top it. MGS2 alone was the biggest step up in terms of scope, visuals, directing and presentation I've ever seen in a video game. I remember at the time being so floored on how much of a different dimension it was from MGS2. Every sequel nowadays looks exactly the same as the last game more or less. As much as I think MGS2 is the overall best game of the series, I still tend to think MGS3 was the series peak. The gameplay is the best the series ever had and it's often the one game I go back to the most and just for that very reason. I need to be in the mood for MGS2. The story wasn't nearly as earthshattering as MGS2, which couldn't of had better foresight into the digital age than anything I've ever seen. Digital censorship being talked about in 2001 was a bullseye.

Is there anything more about Fukishima out there? I know it's unknown why he disappeared from Koji Pro, but he has to be the backbone of the creative process. He more of vetoed a lot of shit in the first three games.

It's quite disgusting that one guy gets all the credit when you see what this guy was responsible for.


Kojima supplied the marble, but Fukishima made the statue. I know it's easy to hate on Kojima and give some other guy credit, but what other explanation could there be for the massive drop in writing? MGS3-MGS4 feel like they're not even part of the same series. MGS4 as a whole feels like a bloated fan fiction.
 
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Jameson Rook

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Shoot, you might be right. I didn't realized that MGS2 might be the biggest step up in gaming. It's literally the T2 of gaming. :LOL:

Fukushima vanished off the face of the Earth during the making of MGS4, and no one knows why. I know it's fucking ridiculous, but Kojima did indeed got death threats from the Yakuza for not wanting to make MGS4 and it would be some really crazy shit if they got to Fukushima, because a) there's a lot of jokes of that online and b) how do you explain a writer who just vanished inexplicably?

Again, just unsubstantiated rumors and I wished someone would get to the bottom of this. Bottom of the lake even. :LOL:

 

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I'll give Kojima this much, his story ideas seem to improve with age. I remember wondering what the hell MGS2 was even supposed to be about when I first played it back in 2002, didn't like it anywhere near as much as the original - and then came back to it ten years later to discover it was shockingly relevant and prescient. I'm getting the same feeling now with MGS4 overall - the idea of eternal proxy wars to feed an economy, massively overbearing control and censorship of information exchange, dominance of AI and machine learning in behavioural control, it all seems much more relevant now a decade later somehow. Both MGS2 and MGS4 seem to have aged like fine wine graphically as well, they really represent the best of their respective generations.

I wonder if I'll feel the same way about MGSV down the line? Yes it's clearly unfinished, but I think I get where Kojima was going with the idea of control of language equating to control in general. We seem to be hurtling headfirst into some hideous globalised McMonoculture that tacitly demands everyone speak English. After reading about Sapir-Worfianism recently, I have to wonder just how badly that's going to affect the world.
 

Jameson Rook

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I don't get what Kojima was trying to convey with MGSV thematically, either because I'm stupid or the ideas were incredibly half baked, regardless of if the game was "finished" or not (probably both frankly!) The only defense I could bring to the story is that maybe, juuussst maybe is that this is the reverse-MGS2 with the same intention. MGS2 was deliberately designed to elicit a negative response from the player and part of the plan was for the player to eventually "get the joke". It's evident a lot of people didn't though.

Then there's the opening line of MGSV "There are no facts, only interpretations" which in my mind could be that the narrative in this game shouldn't be taken at face value but rather as an analogy and reaffirmation of Kojima's weariness of working on the franchise for so long (28 years as of MGSV's release) and all he wanted was a way out and to do that, he would write a story that would please his slaves, erm fans but fall apart under scrutiny.
 

Robocop

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I think MGSV is another example of the series having a villain who's ultimately got the right idea: Skull Face recognises that Cipher's plans to control the world via AI are going to inevitably result in all distinct languages and cultures being paved over with English and creating a homogenised, bland monoculture that robs the world of its heritage. The parasites were perhaps meant to have more metaphorical than literal value, presenting the idea of specific languages as an invasive force, almost like a virus. I think that was the point of the section of the game where the African language your Russian recruits learn ends up killing them.


This is an old idea that's more recently been taken seriously due to new research in the field - the idea that your mother tongue is more than just a means of communication, but directly affects your cognition in extremely profound ways. When you force someone to speak another language that's not their own, it can actually massively alter their cognitive abilities. I can understand why Kojima would find this alarming as a Japanese national, about 40% of the daily Japanese vocabulary is now made up of phonetically-rendered "loan words" that have no connection whatsoever to the Japanese language. He's witnessing this global homogenisation first-hand.

I completely agree with you that Kojima should have been allowed to move on from Metal Gear years ago, though. I've always wanted to see him return to and update his previous work - Snatcher and Policenauts - but that's clearly never going to happen. If Death Stranding ends up being a free-roaming update to those games' extremely narrative-heavy, visual novel stylings I think I'll enjoy it more than most people.
 

Snake Plissken

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Shoot, you might be right. I didn't realized that MGS2 might be the biggest step up in gaming. It's literally the T2 of gaming. :LOL:

Fukushima vanished off the face of the Earth during the making of MGS4, and no one knows why. I know it's fucking ridiculous, but Kojima did indeed got death threats from the Yakuza for not wanting to make MGS4 and it would be some really crazy shit if they got to Fukushima, because a) there's a lot of jokes of that online and b) how do you explain a writer who just vanished inexplicably?

Again, just unsubstantiated rumors and I wished someone would get to the bottom of this. Bottom of the lake even. :LOL:

It definitely it as T2 level sequel. Maybe he was killed... or Kojima became a control freak when he was forced to come back to a project he didn't want to do anymore and fired him.

Also, there are plenty of Fukushima discussions online and here's an article I really liked about how MGS changed drastically after he left:

https://medium.com/@sleepingfoggy6/kojima-fukushima-murata-and-whatever-happened-to-mgs-after-snake-eater-1c3c851dff45
They mention Hayter getting fucked too. When you think of MGS, you think of Kojima and Hayter both... and he didn't even have the decency to tell him in person that they were going a different direction. Japanese gaming devs really think their shit don't stink when outside of Capcom games... what do they even put out that's even truly successful? Final Fantasy hasn't been relevant in decades.

V is all kinds of fucked up and no one is going to tell me otherwise. You can amputate it from the canon and it doesn't even impact any other game.
 
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Snake Plissken

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I don't get what Kojima was trying to convey with MGSV thematically, either because I'm stupid or the ideas were incredibly half baked, regardless of if the game was "finished" or not (probably both frankly!) The only defense I could bring to the story is that maybe, juuussst maybe is that this is the reverse-MGS2 with the same intention. MGS2 was deliberately designed to elicit a negative response from the player and part of the plan was for the player to eventually "get the joke". It's evident a lot of people didn't though.

Then there's the opening line of MGSV "There are no facts, only interpretations" which in my mind could be that the narrative in this game shouldn't be taken at face value but rather as an analogy and reaffirmation of Kojima's weariness of working on the franchise for so long (28 years as of MGSV's release) and all he wanted was a way out and to do that, he would write a story that would please his slaves, erm fans but fall apart under scrutiny.
ASHAMED OF YOUR WORDS AND DEEDS! It does share similarities with MGS2... since that's all Kojima does, constantly recycle old plot devices for future games so the fans go...
1153

...and these plot devices were probably not even his ideas.

It really irritates me how he's put on such a pedestal, especially given what we know now on the behind the scenes of the series. I really hope Death Stranding bombs.
 

wellcqcaboutthat

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ssf sucks ass. cryptdemon is kind of a meat whistle. what a boring, useless site it is now. i hate it there.
 

wellcqcaboutthat

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hahaha, i saw that. i responded to it. after watching it and seeing the extras i caved and got the board game.
 
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